German-born director Nora Fingscheidt is in high-demand with her new film The Outrun starring Oscar-nominee Saoirse Ronan. I was lucky enough to speak with her about her new film, where we talk about the film’s themes on addiction and redemption, the power of Ronan, and stealing from the best films.
The Interview with The Outrun’s Nora Fingscheidt
[Editor’s Note: This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.]
Ben Miller: Hello ma’am. It’s such a pleasure for you to join me. I thank you very much. First off, congratulations on your film. What an achievement. When a film is based off a story, I’m always curious why this story? Why was that the one that stood out compared to the other types of stories that were brought to you?
Nora Fingscheidt: Good question. Many things, actually. I think it came to me during a time I was locked down. I was living in L.A. I was very homesick to Europe. I hadn’t seen my parents for three years. And I read this book about this woman on the edge of the world in solitude while I was in this massive city sometimes feeling very lost. And it hit home for me, for those reasons. But it was also very moving because of the brutal honesty. But then there was so much hope and strength. And then it is about much more than alcohol. It’s about reconnecting to a place you from, it’s about the inheritance of mental illness through a family. And last, but not least, I knew that Saoirse Ronan was attached to star, so I read the book with her in mind.
And while thinking at the beginning, this is unadaptable. I thought there’s no way. It’s so internal. It jumps in time, sometimes four time layers in one line. It’s like journal writing almost. But then, I think through half the book, I got really intrigued creatively in terms of, but how could a movie version of this actually look like? It would be pretty amazing and very unusual. So at the end of the book, I was like, “Okay, yes please!”
Ben Miller: Did you sit back and go, “Huh…” Like you have a challenge to yourself. It’s not unadaptable. How can I actually adapt it? But at the same time know the constraints of how current filmmaking is, is that also kind of a challenge?
Nora Fingscheidt: Yes. It was clear that a film like that will not have a massive budget. Even if Saoirse is attached, it was very clear that this is going to be an indie little arthouse film. But it also comes with a lot of creative freedom, which is fantastic. So you can be more experimental, maybe. But, of course, you have to do it within budget limitations.
Ben Miller: I’m always fascinated by how filmmakers approach the idea of alcoholism. It’s a topic that’s been well-worn throughout film history. How did you want to do it? How did you go into this wanting to differentiate this story from some of those well-worn tales of getting lost in addiction?
Nora Fingscheidt: Well, I mean, for me, it was more than an addiction story…it was always a recovery story. So that is where my main focus went to tell the story about the struggle of this non-linear process of healing. Because it’s not you start there, you stop drinking, you’re fine. I wish. But for most of the people, it goes back-and-forth and in circles. For some people, even after 12 years and something, we hear that in the movie, it’s still one day at a time. So it was clear that, of course, in order to tell a healing story or recovering story, the addiction has to be part of it, but not as the main storyline where you’re like, how horrible are things. But more something that has happened in the past that she has to process. And so her healing continues.
The reality that she has to face in terms of “this is what I did and this what happened” and to confront herself with that reality and with that shame. I think that was the approach where we thought, “Okay, we tell it really from the now and here.” Her internal perspective of the memory of what happened.
Ben Miller: I’ve had some close family members struggle with alcohol. And there’s a specific line in the film that really knocked me over. “I don’t know if I can live my life without alcohol.” I’m not sure I’ve seen that sentiment in other films. It’s a level of honesty. Other addictions are framed as “I know this is killing me, da-da-da-da, it’s a demon…” But no, it’s in the sobriety looking at it going, “What is my life? My life is so defined by this, how do I move forward?” And there’s not really an answer to it. I found that to be a fascinatingly fresh aspect of that.
Nora Fingscheidt: Well it’s great that you mentioned that moment, because this line…she’s already three months sober. She almost made it. Everybody from the outside would go, “You made it through the end of rehab!” And she has this feeling of, “I don’t think i can ever be happy sober.”
Ben Miller: And it’s so painful to hear that because I do think it’s the reality and almost the major dramatic question of the narrative of this film is, “Will Rona be happy sober?” Will she be able to find joy in life again?
Nora Fingscheidt: She will. I can say as much because Amy [Liptrot, co-writer of the film and author of the book] made it. She wrote a book. She’s still alive. We’re not spoiling anything. It’s a very hopeful story in the end, but it’s very brutal to confront that, yeah. Especially if you’re one of the people around people with addiction. The loved ones, the family members…it’s so desperate.
Ben Miller: I’m not saying your job was easy because it certainly is not. But, when you have Saoirse Ronan and the Scottish coastline, a static camera does a lot of the work, right? When you look at it, you’re like, wow…having her and having this setting. How much of your job do you feel like was not messing up?
Nora Fingscheidt: And I think the question is always of balancing it to not give away too much yet. So Saoirse and the Orkney Islands were two of the big things why I wanted to make this film. Sure…but then you can’t just have that for two hours. It’s going to be very boring. It’s going to be 50 minutes. And so I think our job always was to look at it at the beginning. She doesn’t want to be there. So, in the first half of the film, Orkney looks quite bland and gray and blue. London is more like vivid and bright and intriguing.
But as she comes to terms with her past, it’s almost like this crossover happens. London falls apart, it gets more distorted and broken almost. Whereas Orkney finally opens up. So we sort of had to hold back this majesty of the amazing landscape and her and the seals and the whole nature-full experience to the end of the film. That sometimes is my job.
Ben Miller: At what point…obviously Saoirse Ronan being who she is, you go into it saying, this is special. But at what point were you filming and you’re like, “Okay, this is a different level of special”?
Nora Fingscheidt: Throughout the whole process. I mean, as a director, you’re so in this full concentration mode and you kind of have to survive day by day. Because you always go to set in terms of, “My God, if I mess up today…” Everything, her talent is wasted, the money is wasted, all the people here, can’t go back to that location. I better be prepared, we better get the magic on screen and you don’t always succeed with that.
Sometimes you have scenes and you go home and you’re like, something didn’t work. I don’t know what it was. And then sometimes you have really…magic. I think the most of the times when I’m really moved on set and something really, really gets me while I watch it on my tiny monitor, then I know, okay, something right is going on here. If I forget that I’m on a film set, if I have the feeling I’m watching a film, then it’s going to be a good scene.
Ben Miller: I’ve always heard directors say, whenever you’re making the film, you’re kind of lost and like, “I hope I can put all this together.” I imagine there are some of those scene where Ronan is doing quieter things, doing louder things, really balancing all in-between. You’re like, I see where this is going…
Nora Fingscheidt: She is so elevated at her talent. You have to meet her at that level. But I think luckily you forget about that, especially because she was a producer. So we were in this together from the very start. She was part of picking the name for the character and doing all those pre-shoots. We went to Orkney four times with friends and team members. And it because really like, “Okay, how are we going to nail that scene tomorrow?” It’s not like, “My God, I’m watching Saoirse Ronan!” I wouldn’t be able to do my work if that was the case all the time. It’s really like, “Okay, how can we challenge each other sometimes?” Or push the scene to the limit where we both feel like, now we got it and we just don’t stop where it’s good…we go a step further.
Ben Miller: I look at filmmakers as kind of quiet thieves. Like Tarantino steals from absolutely anybody he can think of, but in a good, nice way. What films were you going into this going, this is kind of what I had in mind? Not necessarily, “I’m going to steal from this,” but this is kind of the vibe I’m going for when you started filming?
Nora Fingscheidt: It’s usually a mix of films. Where we went, okay, this sort of epic quiet nature vibe of the film. We thought about Nomadland, Wuthering Heights, films like that. But then we needed something very forceful, like I May Destroy You. That was a big inspiration for me for the London bits. I wanted to include the nerd layer, as we call it. And so that was more like Werner Herzog documentaries where you have a voiceover with images that are in a weird way scientific, but philosophical at the same time.
Ben Miller: Speaking of I May Destroy You, you have actors from that show in this movie. When I look at the cast, I see like, they got Saskia Reeves probably from Slow Horses because of [producer] Jack Lowdon’s connections. They look over here and ask if they are available. These great little actors. This film is lined with the little actors who are not necessarily these huge household names that just fill out the edges of all these people in a way that other films really don’t give to those types of characters.
Nora Fingscheidt: It’s a big thing for me to cast the film, no matter how tiny the role is. Maybe, even the tinier the role is, the more important it is to find somebody. Imagine how difficult it is to have one scene, but create a whole universe. And then also have actors. We so many non-actors in front of the camera. Some people from Orkney who were acting for the first time. They bring some sort of realism with them that is quite magical.
But then you also need professional actors like Paapa [Essiedu]. Saoirse and Paapa and the dynamic of their relationship that they only have four scene, right? And they have to, like in four or five scenes where they really have to play a whole arc of a relationship that you have to buy into their connection and love in order to feel her heartbreak. And it’s quite amazing what they pulled off with so little screen time together.
Ben Miller: Before I go, I always like to have a little recommendation from you. I know you obviously started in your native Germany and were able to transition over to English-language films. But whenever you think of German cinema, is there one that you’re like, this is a film that got lost in the shuffle? Is there something you could recommend that people should see, or it’s underseen, or nobody’s seen?
Nora Fingscheidt: In English, it’s called Head On. In German, the literal translation would be Against the Wall, and it’s by Fatih Akin. It’s such a moving, raw love story about two people who are struggling with their identity and their cultures and so many things. And it’s one of my favorite German movies.
The Outrun is now playing in limited theaters.
Learn more about the film, including how to watch it, at the official website.
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